Is it just me, or does it seems to be open season on Christians these days?

I think it has always been 'open season' on Christians. The Romans were pretty fierce in the way that they dealt with them, until they eventually embraced the religion themselves and there are still a lot of places in the world where it can be uncomfortable or even dangerous to be a Christian.

However, what I think your article is referring to is a feeling of discomfort on the part of many Christians - but particularly conservative Christians - that society in general in the 'western nations' no longer accords their values and beliefs the respect and special status that they once enjoyed. Whether or not this is a good thing it is an inevitable corollary of the fact that Christian beliefs and values are no longer automatically accepted by the vast majority, who are able to choose from alternative worldviews, including secular alternatives. In all frankness, I think that this is inevitable, possibly desirable, and something that Christians will have to get used to.

However, the fact that Christians no longer enjoy the privilege of dictating all of society's morals and values does not mean that they therefore need to compromise on their own beliefs and opinions. It simply means that they will have to get used to operating in a more hostile social environment, much as the early church did, because the political project that began with St Augustine of building the City of God in this world by compelling non-Christians to accept Christian dictates is over.

It is true, as you say, that Christians "are ridiculed". Though unpleasant, this is rarely fatal, except to a weak faith that depends on social approval and external validation. The extremely tough benchmark of how to behave in this situation was once thoroughly described: "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you".

When I'm channel surfing on Sunday mornings and I see thousands of people attending a TV evangelist's show, I know they're idiots. They're the same people who put their faith in the likes of Jim Bakker. Do they come to the intelligent, logical conclusion that all TV evangelists are con men? No. Look at how many of them have been brought down because they ripped off their followers.

When I see hundreds of people placing candles and flowers in front of a stain on a freeway underpass which only vaguely resembles a human, I know they're idiots. Now you're probably thinking, "It's the fault of the liberal, atheist media that only shows the idiots", no it's not, because after the on scene correspondent was finished with his report, the anchor people said, "Even if it's not the Virgin, having faith is the important thing." Why don't I agree? Because it's false. Placing your faith in something that doesn't deserve it is asking for disappointment and it leaves you open to people like Jim Bakker.

"Christians" pick and choose the parts of the Bible they want to agree with and live by. They're the parts which justify the lifestyle that the people have already decided upon. They rationalize the verses that tell them they're sinners by saying something like, "Maybe God really meant __________ or, "Your interpretation of those verses is different from mine." They're all hypocrites. Maybe it's the structure of religion that makes them hypocrites and they're too blinded by faith and emotion to look at it rationally and objectively. Maybe religious leaders are laughing at their followers as they rake in the money. Laughing all the way to the bank.

No matter how long and hard one tries, no one can completely understand the entire Bible in their entire lifetime. Even Bible scholars can't agree with each other. So instead of trying to do the impossible, I decided to stop being a hypocrite.

With palms together,

Many on the mark thoughts here. I am tough on Christians, you probably already know that. I am hard on them because I am so dissappointed in them. A recent post by KFC caused me to go online to read one of the four gospels of the Christian scripture. If only Christians would behave as their Master asks. But this is the problem, they do not, in the main, and moreover, are often in your face about it.

Contrary to the above poster's statement, Muslims and others do not have free reign. They cannot pray in schools in the form of their prayer (Christians in fact may pray silently any time they wish, no one is the wiser), I could not bring in a Buddha and incense and light a stick for morning Zazen in my office, either. At Christmas I hear all over that rightwing Fair and Balanced network that there is an "attack" on Christmas. Attack? What is that? Perhaps they refer to the fact that some of us may not wish our tax money spent on Christmas decorations, such as a Nativity scene on public property or the ten commandments in courtrooms? I would love to have taxpayers pay for a big Buddha to sit in every park or the ten grave precepts to be posted in every courtroom in America, but somehow I doubt that will happen, yet I do not feel people are attacking Buddhism. We should try to seperate our faith's policies from our government's, as unlike government for all, faith is for the few who choose it.

Yet Christians are up in arms about it all. They knock on your door, invite you to pray with them in their way, of course, witness for Jesus, then condemn you for not following him. My goodness. When I share my point of view and faith practices with them, they get a little white in the face and can't seem to wait until they are out the door, informing me on their way that I am going to eternal damnation. Yeppers, just the sort of thing that wins hearts and minds. On the other hand, I welcome people of all faiths to my Zen Center and Temple. I tell them they are not required to chant or vow anything. They are welcome to simply sit Zazen and meditate in their way "on Jesus" if they wish, or Allah. I believe they are coming closer to God in this way.

My granddaughter, much to my dismay, is being schooled at a Baptist church school. I had occassion to visit there once. I looked through the library and was impressed to find a book on Buddhism. I felt good about this until I opened it to see that it was a manual on how to approach Buddhists to show them the fallacy of their faith and to convert them to the "one, true faith." Our library, and I chance to say, all Buddhist libraries would not contain such a book about approaching Christians. In fact, some of the Dalai Lama's works, as well as Thich Nhat Hahn's say to the contrary, stay with your faith, deepen it, do not convert to Buddhism! I say the same at Zen Center.

During the Christmas play, the same school, put on a play where the main character was obviously Jewish and this 'old hag' tried to prevent people from celebrating the holiday. What is a child to think?
Poison right there in church. Oh, the list is so long. Christian intolarence is legend. So, I think it is quite ingenuous to ask the question posed in this post. The answer is in the mirror of most Christian bathrooms.

Be well.

it was a manual on how to approach Buddhists to show them the fallacy of their faith and to convert them to the "one, true faith."

The 'true" faith which was copied from previous ones.

With feet together.

I am hard on all organized religion, just because of one simple doctrine they have.

With the organized religion, pick one, any one.. they all have this one thing in common "there way is the ONLY way" to draw closer to GOD! Right at that point I am out of there.

I have a very strong belief in the Lord GOD, but I have nothing but scorn for all religion, all of them.



the opening is a very gentle tease for Sodhaiho.

Meh, I don't give a shit who worships what, if it makes you happy, carry on.

I think people like Icon protest too much, sounds like he/she has a real hard-on against religion, and Christians in general. I'd like to ask him/her when was the last time anyone of any religion FORCED him to pray or donate to that religion? Perhaps some pervy pastor diddled his little dumpling in the past or something, causing him to condemn an entire faith over the actions of a few.

For many shut-ins, the television evangelists are the only opportunity they have to hear the "lords word." Why begrudge them that? If you don't like them, again, no one is forcing you to watch. If they are thieves, its not YOUR money they are stealing, so why so bitter about it? Did grandma write you out of her will in favor of Jerry Fallwell?

Some folks act like all Christians should be freaking perfect in every way or they have no business sharing their beliefs with anyone else. But as any Christian will tell you, only one perfect man ever walked the earth, and they crucified him, lol.

And Sodaiho? Your little "with palms together" crap seems more than a little sanctimonious when followed by a tirade against another religion, you need to practice what YOU preach as well. Oh wait, only Christians are expected to do that!

I think people like Icon protest too much, sounds like he/she has a real hard-on against religion, and Christians in general. I'd like to ask him/her when was the last time anyone of any religion FORCED him to pray or donate to that religion? Perhaps some pervy pastor diddled his little dumpling in the past or something, causing him to condemn an entire faith over the actions of a few.

Considering your user name and some of the words in your post which I've quoted, I think you're the perv.

And Sodaiho? Your little "with palms together" crap seems more than a little sanctimonious when followed by a tirade against another religion, you need to practice what YOU preach as well. Oh wait, only Christians are expected to do that!

Hello, What "tirade"? I was answering the question as posted. I do indeed practice what I preach, all are welcome at my Zen Center, as I said, and I do not ask they pray "my" way as the "only" way, never, not at all. Palms together, is a greeting, my friend, hardly sanctimonious.

Be well.

Why so hard on Christians? I'm not sure we have it any harder than the new Jewish believers in the first century. Actually I'm sure we don't. What we're seeing here in America is a shift away from the historic Christian Faith our fathers had. Jesus himself said they hated me and they will hate you as well for my sake. No servant is greater than his master. We've been warned.

There is nothing new under the Sun. But I do think in this country we are going to continue to see the gap widen to the point where fence straddling is no longer an option. Actually I believe we're already there.

A true Christian is not perfect, but is daily being sanctified by God himself and growing spiritually in much the same way as a small child grows physically into an adult. Think about this. When we first started walking, all eyes were on us as we stumbled around but after a while no one notices us anymore. We are now walking confidently and no longer making a display of our newfound legs. It's the same for the new Christian. At first we are elated and others for us, but then after the sensationalism wears off we don't even notice we're walking anymore because it comes so naturally. We need to daily be reminded that we are walking for Christ and that all eyes are on us still. Much the same way we do not laugh at a new baby beginning his first missteps we should not laugh at a new Christian walking in the footsteps of Christ either. To be sure these new Christians are going to fall and stumble. It goes with the territory.

I'm afraid many Christians are not doing the walk and are content to still crawl. They are not growing normally, and are unaware of the bad witness for Christ they are being. For those out there disappointed in the Christians, please remember not only are there immature Christians still learning how to walk ,but there are also wolves in sheep's clothing. I consider myself a strong Christian, but I do make mistakes still and for that I'm daily searching out ways I can do better and be a better ambassador for Christ. Instead of looking at the Christian, regardless if they are mature or not, all eyes should be on Jesus.

Moderateman: the opening is a very gentle tease for Sodhaiho.

Sodaiho: Feet together, good. Zen Buddhism is a religion without beliefs, odd as it may seem. As an "organized" religion, it has practices, such as Zazen, Kinhin , and Samu (seated, walking, and working meditation), and "precepts" ( a set of guidelines for living like the Judea-Christian decalogue), there is no dogma and we explicitly ask you not "believe" in anything but what you find as truth yourself.

KFC, thank you very much for this reminder. It is a good thing to keep in mind always. I have great love for those who "walk the walk." Especially in areas where the walk is not only difficult, but dangerous. That Southern Baptist professor friend of mine was one such person. He walked with us in the deep south against racial hatred. This was a part of the south where there were billboards tauting the country as belonging to the Klan (crucifix bearing knight on a rearing stallion) and all. Its easy being a for racial equality in NYC, a whole other matter in the deep south. His one act impressed me until the day I die. Moreover, he was able to listen deeply, could see the truth of other religious points of view. He was a kind and wonderful treasure. I was blessed to learn from him. On the other hand, in that same place there were people, equally adement of their "Christianity" as the only authentic sort who were incredibly racist and absolutely unwilling to see any point of view but there own, all in the name of their God. These people also made a lasting impression.

People are what they are. Some are more grown-up and mature than others. I see no reason to brand the lot for the behavior of some. However, I do draw the line when the lot creates laws (or support laws) which impinge on my faith and freedom.

Be well.

It is true, as you say, that Christians "are ridiculed". Though unpleasant, this is rarely fatal, except to a weak faith that depends on social approval and external validation. The extremely tough benchmark of how to behave in this situation was once thoroughly described: "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you".

VERY insightful, chak.

They're all hypocrites.

A VERY broad generalization, iconoclast. I'd expect better from you.

"A VERY broad generalization, iconoclast. I'd expect better from you."

Why? I haven't seen a post from Iconoclast that wasn't an asinine brainfart in a long time. I'd be more surprised if I found something else with his name on it.

Re: The topic, I think it is an extension of political correctness. For most people it is open season on white people, and vulgar to make fun of anyone else's race. It's the same way for religion. "Diversity" has come to mean that one only may only hold bias toward the majority, since holding bias toward the minority "stifles diversity".

To me it is a big bandwagon full of intellectual and idealistic posers. It's like having a "My body, My choice" bumper sticker tells the world that you are politically superior. Saying snide things about Christianity tells the world that you are intellectually superior... at least people who do it think it does.

In reality it is the equivalent to being a gothgoose; your fingernails painted black and $20 bucks worth of mousse in your hair while working at Cinnabon in the mall and a rack full of CDs you bought and never listened to. Some grow out of it, others just convert it to the grown up version; aka janine garofalo and company.

Re: The topic, I think it is an extension of political correctness. For most people it is open season on white people, and vulgar to make fun of anyone else's race. It's the same way for religion. "Diversity" has come to mean that one only may only hold bias toward the majority, since holding bias toward the minority "stifles diversity".

I agree, baker. While chak was right, Christ did warn us that such was our birthright, so to speak, I think part of the issue for many of us is that we live in a society that is so bent on expressing "tolerance", that it is unfathomable some of those same individuals could be so blatantly INtolerant of our beliefs as Christians.

A VERY broad generalization, iconoclast. I'd expect better from you.

What religious person doesn't pick and choose Bible verses? Not you, Gid or Baker? Bullshit.

Interesting that in that entire post of mine, you could only find one sentence of 3 words to disagree with and Baker could use to call me asinine.